Thursday, June 22, 2006

Who's Waging Class Warfare?


Let's see... the Republicans killed an increase in the minimum wage ($5.15 an hour!), but cut estates taxes on their way to totally elminating what they call the "death tax" on millionaires, and the Economic Policy Institute publishes a study showing that CEOs now earn 262 times the pay of the Average worker... now WHO IS WAGING CLASS WARFARE???!!!

It's time Democrats quit running with their tails between their legs when the fascist republicans accuse them of waging "class warfare" against the rich! It is the other way around! Slaves were not the slave-owners, and workers are not waging class warfare!

Capitalists are waging class warfare!


Blogger PeskyFly said...

Well Jimbo, I don't know. I get the drift I suppose, but I'm pretty big on capitalism.

Friday, June 23, 2006 2:04:00 AM  
Blogger David Holt said...

Mend it, don't end it. Eh, pesky?

Friday, June 23, 2006 3:10:00 AM  
Blogger PeskyFly said...


Friday, June 23, 2006 9:37:00 AM  
Blogger LeftWingCracker said...

But there IS class warfare every day, and it's waged against us.

Of course I'm of the mind that you have to have a little socialism to keep capitalism from descending into serfdom...

Friday, June 23, 2006 9:51:00 AM  
Blogger Brassmask said...

Eventually, people are going to wake up to the fact that capitalism is one of, if not the aspect of life on Earth that is most contradictory to true democracy.

Until it becomes absolutely impossible to offer someone in an elected office something that everyone else can't have equally, true democracy hasn't been acheived.

Democrats get real wiggly when people start using words like equality in relation to capitalism, I think, because it leads to really scary words like "socialism" and "communism" which, when acheived correctly are the end results of phrases that are very popular these days with Dems like "We're all in this together".

Where the Republicans have really put the Progressives balls in their pockets is the way they have successfully demonized labels like "communist", "socialist" and "liberal".

Personally, I'm for a good, fully realized socialist movement in this country. While we on the left are all for raising taxes on the rich and spreading the love that can be bought with that, we also have on this end, folk who think that communism means that everything has to be like it was in Russia before their bastardized version of "Communism" fell where people stand in line for hours to get toilet paper and bread and everything must be painted grey and it's snowing all the time.

In reality, a true communist nation would really be like the America that everyone dreams of. The idealized version of the '50's where everyone has a nice home, a car (maybe two) in the drive way, the mom stays home and cooks while the dad goes out and works and the 2.5 kids play ball in the park.

It is the ultimate expression of Freedom and Americans finding consensus.

Do I think that Americans could go for it? Not right now, but let Bush and his ilk continue to give the corporations more and more power and if couched correctly the American Public could definitely buy into an all-new modern version of the New Deal.

Look at John Edwards' new ideas. He's trying to end poverty. Looks kind of socialist to me.

Friday, June 23, 2006 12:53:00 PM  
Blogger PeskyFly said...

Cracker: exactly. We're such Domino-theory absolutists about everything in America. It's not a question of Capitalism good, socialism bad, as both in their natural, unbridled states have some big, big problems. The trick has always been to build the best system taking the best bits of everything out there. The trickier trick is convincing people that adopting the odd socialist-leaning policy doesn't make you--or your system socialist.

That said, progressives get nowhere by embracing the revolutionary language socialism in the raw. Unless, that is, there's a viable revolution brewing which--and I could be wrong-- there isn't.

Friday, June 23, 2006 1:45:00 PM  
Blogger Jim Maynard said...

Democratic Socialism is not "revolutionary", and evidently people don't really understand what "socialism" is--it is ECONOMIC AND POLITICAL DEMOCRACY.

To learn more visit the DSA website:

or the Socialist Party USA website

But quit repeating the anti-commie rhetoric of the 50s and 60s...

Capitalism is by its very nature UN-DEMOCRATIC.

Friday, June 23, 2006 2:33:00 PM  
Blogger Brassmask said...

The problem comes when people misunderstand just the label "socialism".

Since the '50's that has been the label (along with communism) for what the Chinese and Russian totalitarians were doing in regards to killing lots of people they didn't like and who were interested in overthrowing them because they were totalitarians.

Social programs in the US are socialist in nature. The well-being of the society is at stake when a large section of the population is not participating in the bounty that most of the nation is. Everyone wants to talk about class warfare and who's waging it but in the end it is indeed class warfare and anything but the end of economic class will eventually lead to further economic warfare.

Am I in favor of stripping everyone of their personal belongings like grandma's quilt and pappa's squirrel rifle? Of course, not but I am in favor a rising tide lifting all boats. And we are in a period in history where the rich boats are rising and lower econimic class' boats are sinking.

I'm not interested in storming the white House and making everyone wear the same clothes and enjoy the same art and all the totalitarianism that went with former attempts at communism.

Socialism can be run like a capitalist concern. If the whole country were considered stock holders in a hypothetical company where the whole country wins when that company does well and that does poorly when that company does poorly, then we could get some real equality in this country and politics would operate on a level field rather than the haves running everything by buying who they can and defaming who they can't buy.

Friday, June 23, 2006 2:52:00 PM  
Blogger PeskyFly said...

Capitalism is an economic system. Democracy is a political system. You can't compare apples and oranges, but by god you can add some toasted nuts and mayo and have a fruit salad.

Over the years I've had my problems with how the economic system is exploited, and have feared that, left unchecked, it could crush our Democracy by creating a monarchy of wealth.

But Jim, you're missing an important piece of perspective. Democracy is as problematic as capitalism: unchecked you can have a tyrrany of the majority. That's certainly what the Christian right is seeking.

So is Democracy also anti-Democratic? Of course not. Like pure Capitalism pure Democracy fails to promise equity. Both require tempering: Mayo, nuts, a sprinkle of coconut, etc. That's a good fruit salad.

Friday, June 23, 2006 3:08:00 PM  
Blogger Brassmask said...

Amen, Pesky.

And my vision would be more of a blend of political and economic systems.

Friday, June 23, 2006 3:43:00 PM  
Blogger Jim Maynard said...

I think progressives need to quit defending capitalism!
If you really believe that prople should come before and are more important than private profit, then you are not a capitalist!

Progressive politics are incompaitable with a capitalist system based on the accumulation of private wealth (and power!) Which side of the class struggle are "liberals" and "progressives" on??

The answer I think is Democratic Socialism, a temporary mix of democratically-controlled markets with redistribution of wealth through progressive taxation and a large welfare state to combat the social problems of capitalism.. and a gradual move away from capitalism toward a more democratic political and economic system.

Saturday, June 24, 2006 10:45:00 AM  

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